Re: Re: CB experiments
By: phigan to Weatherman on Sun Feb 09 2025 05:46:32

Just FYI, I think the guy you replied to is in the UK.

Is CB in the UK on the same frequencies as the USA? Wasn't there some place that calls FRS as CB or something?

Correct, CB in the UK is on UHF frequencies that I believe run along the US FRS/GMRS bands, while CB in the US is on HF band.
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On 09 Feb 2025, kk4qbn said the following...

Re: Re: CB experiments
By: phigan to Weatherman on Sun Feb 09 2025 05:46:32

Just FYI, I think the guy you replied to is in the UK.

Is CB in the UK on the same frequencies as the USA? Wasn't there some place that calls FRS as CB or something?

Correct, CB in the UK is on UHF frequencies that I believe run along the US FRS/GMRS bands, while CB in the US is on HF band.

i looked it up.. seems the UK has an original CB band ~27.60 -> ~27.99 as well as the US band being tacked on eventually for a total of 80 channels.

the previous joke about 27.555 was because of "freebanding" .. it seems less sneaky now considering both below and above that frequency are more CB channels..

the UK lost it's UHF CB band 934MHz in 1999(?) and i'm unsure they would call PMR446 nor the one at 477MHz "CB" for historical reasons (having had similar CB culture to the USA)

*shrug*

where i live there used to still be a lot of CB activity near the downtown area.. but that's getting to be maybe 15 years ago now. ugh.

had this thing on the roof: https://www.amazon.com/Sirio-Antenna-GPE-10m-Base/dp/B009GWL8EK

was pretty slick!

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Re: Re: CB experiments
By: kk4qbn to phigan on Sun Feb 09 2025 03:14 pm

Correct, CB in the UK is on UHF frequencies that I believe run along the US FRS/GMRS bands, while CB in the US is on HF band.

They don't seem too far apart - from Wikipedia:

CB was eventually legalised on a 27 MHz band but not the band used in the US. Whereas the US used a band occupying the range 26.965 to 27.405 MHz, the UK system was to operate on 27.60125 to 27.99125 MHz.

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Re: Re: CB experiments
By: kk4qbn to phigan on Sun Feb 09 2025 15:14:55

Correct, CB in the UK is on UHF frequencies that I believe run along the US FRS/GMRS bands, while CB in the US is on HF band.

CB in the UK is on two blocks, the original 27.60125 - 27.79125 (high?) and the "Euro" CEPT band (26.965 - 27.405), which I think(?) is the same as the US?

Regarding UHF, we have the PMR 446 band for little handhelds, which may be what you are thinking of? Unless you mean the 928MHz block the government proposed in the very early days but nobody wanted...

BobW

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Re: Re: CB experiments
By: Bob Worm to kk4qbn on Mon Feb 10 2025 09:00:06

Yeah, I probably should have read on a bit - I see other people have already replied with everything I just said :)

Sorry!

BobW

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Re: Re: CB experiments
By: Bob Worm to kk4qbn on Mon Feb 10 2025 09:00:06

Correct, CB in the UK is on UHF frequencies that I believe run along the US
FRS/GMRS bands, while CB in the US is on HF band.

CB in the UK is on two blocks, the original 27.60125 - 27.79125 (high?) and the "Euro" CEPT band (26.965 - 27.405), which I think(?) is the same as the US?

I didnt realize the UK's CB band was in these ranges, I've never really studied into but have been told by a couple of my old elmers here locally that the PMR you are speaking of was actually the UKs CB band, And I have never been corrected lol, cant really say it's ever been brought up in conversation before :)

Regarding UHF, we have the PMR 446 band for little handhelds, which may be what you are thinking of? Unless you mean the 928MHz block the government proposed in the very early days but nobody wanted...

Thank yall for letting me know. have really never had the need to look into it, but like to know.
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Re: Re: CB experiments
By: Bob Worm to kk4qbn on Mon Feb 10 2025 09:01:48

Re: Re: CB experiments
By: Bob Worm to kk4qbn on Mon Feb 10 2025 09:00:06

Yeah, I probably should have read on a bit - I see other people have already replied with everything I just said :)

I'm using your message to pretty much reply to everyone else also, Thanks for the (correct) information. Yes, I always had the belief that the PMR service was considered your CB service, did'nt even know about the services in the 27mhz range.
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Re: Re: CB experiments
By: kk4qbn to Bob Worm on Mon Feb 10 2025 13:25:46

I'm using your message to pretty much reply to everyone else also, Thanks for the (correct) information. Yes, I always had the belief that the PMR service was considered your CB service, did'nt even know about the services in the 27mhz range.

TBF it's not your job to know every country's CB allocations :)

Beyond knowing the names "CB27/81" and "CEPT27/81" and that they're vaguely in the 27MHz area I had to look up the rest of the details... and I live in the UK and own a CB.

BobW

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Re: Re: CB experiments
By: Weatherman to Ginger1 on Sat Feb 08 2025 02:36:00

SWR = Standing Wave Ratio. Compares the signal output to the RF returning along the coax. A tuned antenna system will have a low SWR, meaning more signal is transmitted compared to what is returning through the coax. SWR of 1.5:1 are good, 1.0:1 is perfect. SWR of 3:1 or below is acceptable.

Thank you - that makes some sense!

Is this different to the meter on the CB radio itself? Mine has a meter with a single needle, but two gauges - one labelled signal, the other power.

And I've been reading about tuning the antenna - but what is there to tune? Does this mean the direction it is pointing in? I have a car-mounted whip antenna - and I can adjust the angle it points at, but not much else. I've only tried it perpendicular to the car roof.

Do Squelch and RF Gain have a role (I have knobs for these on the radio).

Apologies for the newbie questions!

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Re: Re: CB experiments
By: Bob Worm to kk4qbn on Tue Feb 11 2025 08:20:16

Further to my previous messages...I've made some progress on the CB front.

On Monday, I found a telephone number for an amateur radio supplier, in an amatur radio mag in WHSmith. Gave them a ring, and they had me very quickly set up with a CB whip-type antenna, magnet mount, co-ax. It came the very next day. The company was very helpful and interested in my CB adventures, despite my obivous complete lack of knowledge! :) The antenna is made by an Italian company - looks to be good quality.

Quickly got it set up on the car roof, sat on the drive. Was amazed to soon hear hear responses to my "Anybody copy come on?" line.
Shared a few sentences with someone about 8 miles away - who said he could hear me clearly. Tried to have a bit of a chat - but lost him.

Had a few snippets of things like "COPY COPY COPY!!" and "GO GO GO!!". This was all very exciting.

Tonight, tried again but just static on all channels after twenty minutes of trying. Got cold so came in.

My next job is to power it within the car (I was running an extension cable out to the car - the shame of it). This will allow me to drive around - get up on to a hill or something, see if that makes a difference. Could I connect it to the cigarette lighter? Maybe just another 12 v battery in the foot well...

All in all though, a very positive start!

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Re: CB experiments
By: Ginger1 to Keyop on Wed Feb 05 2025 20:39:31

Not had it up and running since I moved house, but its on the list of things to do.

When did you last use it? Anyone there to chat to?

That would be 2014.

There were a few users on then - not sure what its like now.

Maybe a project for me in the summer to get it installed again, although I would need to get a new decent antenna.

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Re: CB experiments
By: Bob Worm to Keyop on Wed Feb 05 2025 19:03:30

I think we all know what's going to win out of those two in your house :)

Indeed - which is why the CB is still sat in the loft :)

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Re: Re: CB experiments
By: phigan to Weatherman on Sun Feb 09 2025 05:46:32

Is CB in the UK on the same frequencies as the USA? Wasn't there some place that calls FRS as CB or something?

In the early years, the only frequencies allowed were called UK-FM - 27.60125 to 27.99125 FM.

In later years, FM "mid band" was also allowed.

Both required a CB licence.

In later years the licence requirement was removed and according to the article below, AM and SSB were permitted too.

https://www.red-radio.co.uk/cb-frequencies

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Re: Re: CB experiments
By: Ginger1 to Weatherman on Wed Feb 12 2025 21:36:49

Hi, Ginger1.

Is this different to the meter on the CB radio itself? Mine has a meter with a single needle, but two gauges - one labelled signal, the other power.

Yup, the SWR meter is a separate little box with a dial that you need to cable between the radio and the aerial to tune it up.

And I've been reading about tuning the antenna - but what is there to tune?

Tuning as far as aerials go means the length. If you imagine a wave going up the length of the aerial (?) you get the best results when the length of the aerial is a nice fraction (e.g. 1/4 or 1/2) of a wave's length.

Somewhere on your whip (usually at the bottom or sometimes if there's a coil half way up, there) there will probably be a little grub screw that lets you ajust the length.

In theory if you take the aerial off and put it back on the car you should re-adjust it again but I find mine doesn't really change as I put it back in the same spot. I'm surprised your helpful guy didn't adjust it for you or try to flog you a SWR meter. If you don't want to swing for a meter then at least a one-time adjustment *should* put you *somewhere near* the right length so you hopefully don't damage your radio.

Hmm...

Anyway - hope you get some good contacts. You must be in a half decent place for it to get people on the first attempt :)

BobW

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phigan wrote to Weatherman <=-

Re: Re: CB experiments
By: Weatherman to Ginger1 on Sat Feb 08 2025 02:28 am

CB channel 9 is still by FCC regulation the emergency channel. In

Just FYI, I think the guy you replied to is in the UK.

Is CB in the UK on the same frequencies as the USA? Wasn't there some place that calls FRS as CB or something?

I think CB in the UK is on UHF instead of HF like it is here.



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Ginger1 wrote to Weatherman <=-

Re: Re: CB experiments
By: Weatherman to Ginger1 on Sat Feb 08 2025 02:36:00

SWR = Standing Wave Ratio. Compares the signal output to the RF returning along the coax. A tuned antenna system will have a low SWR, meaning more signal is transmitted compared to what is returning through the coax. SWR of 1.5:1 are good, 1.0:1 is perfect. SWR of 3:1 or below is acceptable.

Thank you - that makes some sense!

Is this different to the meter on the CB radio itself? Mine has a meter with a single needle, but two gauges - one labelled signal, the other power.

I've been made aware that you're located in the UK, so regulatory issues are definitely different between there and the US.

Generally the CBs here have one meter, it's referred to as an S/RF meter. When transmitting it shows the output signal strength as referenced against an internal standard and when receiving it shows the receive signal strength - again referenced against an internal standard. When I refer to "internal" standard, I mean it. There is no industry standard I know of that defines exactly what an S9 received signal is or what a "5" output strength is. Too many variables to go into here to try to explain it. On your radio, with two meters, I can only guess that "signal" would indicate the strength of the received signal and "power" would indicate the transmitter output. Not knowing the model of the radio and then looking up the manual, this is just a guess.

And I've been reading about tuning the antenna - but what is there to tune? Does this mean the direction it is pointing in? I have a
car-mounted whip antenna - and I can adjust the angle it points at, but not much else. I've only tried it perpendicular to the car roof.

Tuning refers to altering the length of the driven element of the antenna. Making it shorter to try to match the desired operating frequency. When fabricating an antenna we tend to make it a bit longer than needed so that it can be trimmed down to match the frequency. Your car-mounted whip antenna probably has a set screw to hold the whip in place. Loosen it and you can adjust up and down as needed (to a small extent) to fine-tune your SWR.

Do Squelch and RF Gain have a role (I have knobs for these on the
radio).

Squelch is used to raise the noise floor of the radio's receiver so that only signals above a given level will be heard. It's essentially used to adjust the receiver so that background static is not heard and so that signals stronger than the squelch setting will be heard.

RF gain adjusts the receiver's sensitivity. Best use of the RF gain is when you are trying to hear a signal but a weaker signal on the same frequency is interfering. By adjusting the RF gain you can make the receiver less senstitive so that the weaker signal is attenuated to the point where it no longer interferes with the signal you're trying to listen to.

Apologies for the newbie questions!

Not a problem. It's how you learn, and it's good for me to review some of these myself. I've been off the air ever since I relocated and miss this stuff. Need to get some coax buried out to my antenna site and put some equipment on the air!

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At 12:44 AM on 15 Feb 25, Weatherman said to Ginger1:

Generally the CBs here have one meter, it's referred to as an S/RF
meter. When transmitting it shows the output signal strength as
referenced against an internal standard and when receiving it shows the receive signal strength - again referenced against an internal standard.

Right, so I think this is just the same as on my radio. It's a single meter
- and I imagine the "signal" guage as I was referring to is the receive
signal strength, whereas "power" is the transmit strength.

When I refer to "internal" standard, I mean it. There is no industry standard I know of that defines exactly what an S9 received signal is or what a "5" output strength is. Too many variables to go into here to
try to explain it. On your radio, with two meters, I can only guess
that "signal" would indicate the strength of the received signal and "power" would indicate the transmitter output. Not knowing the model of the radio and then looking up the manual, this is just a guess.

Sorry - I think my initial explanation wasn't very clear - just the one meter as above. But I now know what this is doing - thank you :)

Tuning refers to altering the length of the driven element of the
antenna. Making it shorter to try to match the desired operating frequency.

Mine is a shop-bought one, so no tuning required then. Lovely.

Do Squelch and RF Gain have a role (I have knobs for these on the
radio).

Squelch is used to raise the noise floor of the radio's receiver so that only signals above a given level will be heard. It's essentially used
to adjust the receiver so that background static is not heard and so
that signals stronger than the squelch setting will be heard.

Ok, so the lower the squelch setting, the more chance I will have of hearing distant signals, but more background noise too. Makes sense.

RF gain adjusts the receiver's sensitivity. Best use of the RF gain is when you are trying to hear a signal but a weaker signal on the same frequency is interfering. By adjusting the RF gain you can make the receiver less senstitive so that the weaker signal is attenuated to the point where it no longer interferes with the signal you're trying to
listen to.

Sounds like one I need to play with, in that circumstance.

Fantastic. Thank you for all of this information. Gradually increasing
my CB knowledge!


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